Featured Conversation: In Conversation With Music Journalist Martin Douglas

Published on May 26, 2025

The following is a conversation between musician and IHTOV correspondent Owen Brazas and music journalist Martin Douglas of KEXP. It has been edited for clarity and length.

OB: All right, so let’s just rap. Let’s talk about, since this is a vinyl website, what do you like about vinyl records?

MD: I like being able to collect something. I like the physical medium. The thing I like most about vinyl is that it’s a…I don’t want to say a living, breathing thing, but it is a thing that you can hold in your hands, and I’m really into the physical practice of picking a record off of the shelf and putting it on the turntable and listening to it through this huge pair of speakers that I have. And when my fiance is not home, turning up about volume, real loud. It’s also something I do with writing. I have a ton of notebooks. I’m looking at all my notebooks. I have probably a dozen of them and that doesn’t include dream journals and Tarot workbooks and all of that woo-woo, shit. Again, I like the physical practice of writing. I like writing with my hands, rather than, you know, dictating it into my phone or using the Notes app, or whatever. I use notes app for, like, random ideas, but not actual writing.

OB: Yeah, like the heavy lifting gives you actually the physical doing. One of the things I like about records is  - I know this is going to kind of sound weird - as a young person, I was really into the library and comic books, and going into a comic book store or a library, it has a very particular smell like a library. Smells like a library. Wherever you go there’s like the ink on the page. I think vinyl records and record stores are very similar. Like you go into it and it hits all your senses.

MD: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. And yeah, I know. I know what you mean about libraries, because I really like the smell of new books when you walk into a bookstore, like it’s one of my favorite smells. So I totally get that.

OB: Totally. I also like that records have been made for 100 years, probably a little more, and it’s kind of been made the same way. There’s people that take wax or vinyl or whatever, and it goes on to a press, and there’s a guy that presses it. And there’s someone that physically cuts your lacquers and listens to them. It’s also personal to get made, especially nowadays, because it’s not just like, send it to the mp3 factory, and it spits out.

As someone who’s making music, it’s just like, oh, this could be around forever. You know, I have records that were my grandfather’s. And it’s the same thing. I opened the record, I put it on a turntable, and put a needle down, and I hear the music like, you know, the file hasn’t changed. I don’t have a different computer. It just feels like a ritual that has continued.

MD: You know, not to get all hippy dippy again for the second time in like, three minutes. But there’s a sustainability to it. I like that. It’s a sustainable object in that sometimes you’ll hear somebody say, oh, you know, pressing up vinyl is bad for the environment, because it leaves waste. But every person I know who collects records, buys them or hands them off to someone else, donates them, sells them back to the record store, leaves them to somebody in their will. It is an object.You have your grandfather’s records. It is an object that can last forever. If you take care of your records they are still listenable forever, which I think is different from, you know, CD formats and tape formats. I think tapes in particular are way more disposable just because it’s so easy to wreck them and mp3s are what they are. Streaming is what it is, but you can’t say that streaming is better for the environment when it takes water to keep servers cool.

OB: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, as technology goes on, they’re making more environmentally sound ways to make these records on recycled vinyl. You know, we’re humans. We leave waste of what we do. We try to be mindful of it. But like, you know, I’d rather have a little carbon footprint to my record collection versus, you know, just throwing my garbage everywhere, or being wasteful. There’s worse ways to be to the environment. I’m also not a billionaire flying in a jet 90 times a year, going five miles.

MD: And you’re not throwing your records away, like you’re either keeping them or you’re giving them to somebody, or you’re selling it back to the record store. Yeah, absolutely all ways to know that vinyl can be a sustainable product. Absolutely.

OB: I think people who listen to records and collect records, and I never want to call myself a collector, because I never buy something because it’s like, this is going to be worth money if someday I’m going to buy it and then put it away and never listens to it. I have to like it, or be interested in it, or has to have really cool packaging, or something like, this is an art object, and I like it for the art, and that’s why I’m buying it. But the people who do that, they hold on to their records, they build shelves, they move to different apartments so they can have more room for more records. It’s absolutely, don’t call it a sickness, but you know.

MD: I’m kind of in that place right now where my partner and I talk regularly about when we move into our forever home, because we like our place, but it’s definitely not the place we want to live forever. And so one of the big features of getting a house will be that it will be bigger, and thus I will have more space for my records. And it’s funny that you mentioned the idea of not wanting to call yourself a collector, because I told you off here that I was spinning vinyl on the radio, a little community radio station called Hollow Earth radio, and the DJ referred to me as a record collector. And it was the first time that I had ever even considered that, like, oh yeah. Like, I guess I do collect records, but it’s not, it’s not in a traditional sense, like what you’re talking about. It’s more of how you see it, where it’s like, I gotta like the music. In fact, I’ve sold a bunch of records in the past few months to make way for stuff that I like, because they were bought during a time that I, you know I’m a different person than I was, and obviously I have different tastes than I did. So, yeah, getting rid of those records and making room for new ones. Because, yeah, I gotta, I kind of like what I’m listening to, I gotta want to put it on.

OB: What you said. That’s another way that it’s sustainable. Your life changes and if you don’t have space to hold on to all these records, or if, even if you don’t want to, it’s just like watching your collection mutate and change is a reflection on how you are as a person, or what you’re feeling, or what you’re into. We haven’t talked about it in this conversation, but you’ve mentioned before that you’re becoming a blues guy. And probably five years ago, you didn’t have as many blues records, and now all of a sudden, that blues section is starting to take up a lot of real estate.

MD: Absolutely. Right? Yeah, because so I have two different spots for my records, and it’s more out of necessity than anything else, but somehow I have, like all of my my rock and punk records out front in the living room with the record player, and then I have what I call the black music collection in the back, which is my Howling Wolf. I just played this on the radio today. It’s Howling Wolf Live in Europe, 1964 I keep that back here.

OB: That’s so funny you brought that up because I just listened to that today. Like, literally, four hours ago, I was watching a documentary on Brian Jones of the Rolling Stones. And they mentioned how that performance of Howling Wolf, when he came over and did it, was a big deal. And they showed an excerpt of him playing from that.

MD: Was that the BBC documentary, because if that’s the same one, I’ve watched it. I watched it in England, bored because I was jet lagged and my partner was asleep, and I was just flipping through channels, and I’m like, oh, Brian Jones documentary on..I think it was BBC 6

OB: Like, yeah, I had no intention of why. I didn’t seek it out. Jess was doing something, and I was like, I just going to put something on. And it was suggested to me on Hulu or something, like, Hey, you like music documentaries. Try this. And it really got me in the blues mood. So Martin Scorsese did a documentary about the blues, and I started going through the episodes of that.

MD: Oh my gosh, what is it? What’s that Scorsese documentary called?

OB: It’s called, Martin Scorsese Presents the Blues, a Musical Journey. It’s seven episodes, and each director does something like, you know, Martin Scorsese talks about God. I forget what his emphasis is. But then there’s Clint Eastwood talking about piano players, and they talk about Chicago and Chess Records. And also there each episode focuses on something so it’s not meandering all over the place, but it’s, it’s really cool.

MD: Nice. Quick aside. Did you like Sinners? I want to watch it. I’ve been convinced to watch it after resisting it. And like seeing the previews and being like this, I feel like Brian Coogler is doing too much.

OB: It’s awesome. It’s Ryan Coogler. I was in on the ground floor with him, and it’s just him kind of letting loose. I’ve read some interviews, and, you know, his close uncle died, and he had introduced him to the blues, but he always held blues far away because he saw it as old man music. And then when his uncle passed, he started listening to some of the records that he had listened to, and then it was like how music and blues is so important to black identity, and it speaks across generations and how that music kind of ripped a hole. Generations can talk to each other through music and somehow that summons vampires. It’s cool.

MD: I like that thread of the blues being the foundation of a lot of the music that we listen to today. But also, I really like that Ryan Coogler said that, yeah, he kind of kept it out of business because he thought it was old man music, because I did the same thing for many years.

OB: Absolutely, that’s what my dad was really into when I was coming into my own as a music fan. So if my parents liked it, I didn’t want to like it, you know what? But my dad did drag me to a lot of Chicago blues clubs and stuff when I was way too young, and introduced me to some Chicago players and stuff. So in retrospect, it was really good that he did that.

MD: That’s awesome, yeah. And one of those things where, yeah, you may not appreciate it in the moment, but then you. Look back and you’re like, Wow, that was really cool.

OB: And it was like, not everyone’s dad, especially a white dad, was listening to Chess and Alligator records and talking about local blues legends who are just holding on, like  they’re 80 years old and they’re playing this terrible little bar. Weird question: So do you remember when you first grabbed a record, like, the tactile grabbing of a record and, like figuring out, like, Oh, this is music’s on here. And I, you know how to work it.

MD: It was probably a lot later than a lot of people I know, because when I was a kid, I’m old enough to remember when CDs were kind of expensive. And so, CDs were the thing, because it’s like, oh, this is really expensive. And it’s like, you had a tape, you know, tapes are cool, but like, oh, what’s this digital CD? You know, there’s a laser that reads it and plays the music. And so my first, my first experience being in awe with the physical format of music was CDs. But when I can’t even remember the first time I held a record and was like, Wow, this, this is pretty cool. It probably wasn’t until right before I actually got a record player that I was like, Oh, this is a pretty cool format, and I’m going to explore it.I had heard things like, oh, you know, vinyl sounds better. I mean, that’s also a given, because of all of the machinery involved. But I do have to say that I was a late bloomer in the conversion to being a vinyl head.

OB: I know you’ve probably heard me tell this story, but you know, I came to records because we didn’t have a lot of money, and when I came in, that’s like you said, CDs were just coming out. Like, I mean, they didn’t come out for a while, but were becoming more mainstream, and I just couldn’t afford it, and my parents, luckily, had invested in  a stereo system that sounded good, and they had a record player, and my dad had a spare one. And I learned very quickly, instead of paying, you know, $20 for a CD, I could go to the record store in the used section and walk away with like, 10 records for $5.

MD: Yeah, man. And this is back in the day, when, when they have five or 10 dollar bins and $3 bins. And, yeah, that’s unreal today, yeah,

OB: Although I remember all my little local record stores were trying to keep up with technology. So the vinyl section started to get really small, and they were trying to get rid of those so they could have big walls of CDs. So if you go in there and talk and try to haggle, you could go out with a lot of good stuff, nice. And I did.

MD: I love that.

OB: I’ve always felt like why did like DIY culture and punk culture and early hip hop and stuff gravitate towards records. It was diving through, trying to find breaks, trying to find stuff to sample. And you know, records were cheap at the time. You could find forgotten soul records. I mean, Numero Group is making a fortune on finding old soul stuff and old funk and all that. And then I remember, in the 90s, little bands, like from a couple towns over, they made a seven inch. And I was like, why are they making records when CDs are coming out? Though it made total sense when you started to learn about DIY culture and what it meant to make this 150 gram press of a small seven inch record that they handmade the cover with, like, a small silk screen. What’s that say?

MD: Right? It’s so cool to think about now. Like, I think in the moment, it’s easy to be like, well, there’s all this new technology coming out. You know, we were swept up in the CD generation. But I think, with the benefit of hindsight, it is, like you said, an art object. Even a seven inch is pretty substantial, like when you’re holding it in your hand, it feels like a, like a thing. It’s not this small little disc that, you know, is basically glass. It’s not a tape where, if you fling it across the room, it might break on the floor. It’s pretty substantial. Getting up to 180 gram vinyl like those things are pretty heavy, yeah. Just bask in the physicality, again, the physicality of vinyl, of records.

OB: It’s also pretty big, like a 12 inch, an LP, could have a gatefold, you could have and compared to, like a CD and a record, like, you can see the full art. Like, I know it sounds cheesy, but I remember getting a record like, oh, wow, you can really see everything. Like the My Bloody Valentine record, I think it’s you who made me realize, with the woman on the ground and she has a knife up to her neck, she’s in the grass. It’s black and white. I had the CD, and I had no idea there was a knife up to her throat, until I got the record. And I was like, Oh, my God. Like, Oh, that makes sense. Okay. And then like, you know, bands can put in an insert with all the lyrics that are real big and that in the insert itself is kind of like an art object, and it says a lot about what the band is, or what they, you know, the framing of their art, or there’s a poster, or sometimes There’s some weird knick-knack in there. You know, what was it? I think the first Godspeed record, they always put in a smashed penny from a railroad crossing track.

MD: It reminds me a lot of visual art, of going to a museum and standing in front of a painting. It’s different when it’s on a postcard or it’s a JPG file, or, you know, whatever it’s on your phone, you get the full majesty of the work and your interpretation of what the artist means when you are standing in front of that painting. And I think holding a record, opening that gatefold, taking out the insert, is very similar, like you are experiencing the full intention of this artist’s vision. And I think that’s really cool.

OB: Absolutely. I also think, like as a listener, when I listen to a record, I’m making a commitment to listen to the music, because when I start to listen, I’ve opened it, I’ve slid it out of its sleeve, I’ve pulled it out, I’ve looked at it, I’ve put it on my platter, I’ve moved the needle over to find right where I want to put it, and then I am listening to it with the knowledge, like, I know I’m going to have to flip that record over to continue my journey. If you’re streaming or a CD you just hit it and it goes. It kind of forces me to listen to the album.Sometimes you’re listening to a CD or if you’re streaming, like, this isn’t hitting too good, I’m gonna skip, skip, fast forward, whatever.

MD: Or even, you know, in the streaming age, you can just put your favorite songs on a playlist. 

OB: If I want to skip a song, I gotta get up, open the turntable, move the needle. The odds of me doing that are slim.

MD: It speaks to what we’ve been talking about as far as physicality, but it’s also a ritual, like. And sometimes it’s not easy to get that record.,You do this whole thing, and you take the record out, and you take it out of the little sleeve, inside of the sleeve, and you make sure it’s clean, and you put it on the turntable, and you take the needle and yeah, like, it’s a it’s a whole thing.

OB: You’re a participant in a ritual. Like, the musicians made this thing, and now I am on the other side where I’ve received the object, and I have to do these things to hear it. There is some effort there.

MD: Right? right? You are a participant in the act of this person sharing their art. It’s, you know, no different than going to a rap show and, you know, putting your hands in the air.

OB:  I like that. I never thought about it that way before. I also remember kind of going back to aesthetics of records, like my early records were my parents’ records and early 7 inches and stuff. And they were always black, just a black record. And I remember, I ordered my first little punk 7 inch from this distro called Crank, and it was $2.50 for a 7 inch.  And I open it up, and it’s this baby blue color. I’m like, they can be colored. I told my parents, they’re like, yeah, man, of course they can and but like. But just like seeing that that’s an option, like it just opens more creative doors and another more kind of reflection of the band’s aesthetic.

MD:  I totally agree. And yeah, one of the first albums that that I bought was the Velvet Underground’s White Light, White Heat and I had no idea that it was going to be white vinyl, like it didn’t say, I don’t think it said on the package. And I wasn’t anticipating it, because I had never gotten color vinyl before like that that came later where it was like, Oh, this is, this is, you know, orange splatter vinyl or whatever, right? But like that experience of, like, the surprise of seeing, like, a white record was just so cool to me. And my very first colored vinyl, and it’s just, like, a complete surprise. And also, what you’re saying about it being part of the band’s aesthetic, like it’s a white record, the records obviously call White Light, White Heat. Like it’s, it’s just a really cool, really cool juxtaposition of ideas.

OB: White vinyl is just so cool because it is the inverse of what you’re expecting.

MD: The only way it’s not cool is if you have to spin it live, yeah, trying to find the groove. I’ve encountered having to, you know, I’m like, picking out records to play live. I mentioned the the radio set today, but I’ve also done a couple, maybe three live DJ gigs, and, getting that record, and then realizing, Oh, damn, it’s colored vinyl, like, I’m going to have to find the groove on this is, it can be kind of difficult, and especially if you’re like me, where you kind of have an impression of what song you want to play, but you aren’t exactly sure. I don’t I don’t write down a set list of stuff that I’m going to play when I spin vinyl. So it’s like, maybe I’ll play this. And thankfully, the times that I have played White Light, White Heat, my white vinyl copy, I play the title track, which is side one track, one.

OB: That would give me anxiety.

MD: Thankfully, it’s never caught me in such a bad spot where I’m like, it’s the next record, and I’m like, oh shit. What am I gonna do? 

OB: Also thinking about how records right now, well, just speaking for myself and friends, is like, the only thing that’s kind of keeping some musicians in money. It’s like T-shirts and records. Those are the two things audiences seem to want to buy. And both things seem worth money to them. I really don’t want to be an old man who yells at clouds. But, you know, younger people who are growing up with that, they’ve always had streaming and stuff and like, music feels less and less valuable to them. I mean music changes their lives. And, you know, the soundtrack to what they do and etc, etc, but it’s always been free to them. Why would they pay money for it, you know? And that’s like, kind of what we were saying with records as a physical object that looks like it was difficult to make, and there were a lot of decisions going to make it. And kind of the same deal with a T-shirt, like, you know, there’s a lot of design to it, and it’s something I can wear, and it’s cool, and it tells other people that, hey, I’m cool, you know.

OB: But it’s weird that it’s like, those are the two things.

MD: And I don’t know why that is. I have a lot of feelings about bands and artists having to basically be merch manufacturers and sales people. It’s awful.

OB: It’s the worst part about being in a band. I hate being like always hustling people, like, I gotta make content. I just want to write songs.

MD:  Yeah, it’s, it gets pretty weird. Because I have been a music journalist for so long, I am so used to getting into shows for free that I will allocate my budget to buy merch, because it’s the best way to support an artist. Even buying the ticket sometimes isn’t as good as buying the t-shirt or buying the record, and then if I love the band, then I’m going to be thrilled that I got their t-shirt and got their record, and I’m going to have gnarly pit stains in the t-shirt. I’m going to play their record all the time. Play it for, you know, whoever comes over to my house. And I think that is the cool thing about the idea of, like, yeah, gotta hit the merch table. It’s sad that it has to be a thing, but I derive a lot of enjoyment from spending my money to support bands and then going out into the world and showing my support.

OB: Just being a fan and being a creator of stuff I just, like, even before I knew, these people need this money. I’ve always thought of music scenes like, Oh, you’re almost like a gardener you have to, like, cultivate. You have to tend the soil. You have to show up at shows. Like, if you want to be part of a scene, you have to go to see the music you like, right? Or, maybe you’re, you’re really interested in the opener, and not even the who’s headlining, you should still go? I know this band, little, no name. Band has toured and driven all the way from Toronto to Chicago. There’s 10 people in the room. I made it there, if I don’t buy a record and shirt are they going to get gas? Like, you know, yeah. Like, sometimes I feel like it’s part of the contract.

MD: And it’s that again, you know, it’s sad that that economic pressure has to be there. And I am grateful that I am in a financial position where probably a third of my disposable income is spent on bands, merch and records.

Part II will publish Wednesday.

Ever since Owen’s parents taught him how to flip a record as a child he has been hooked on vinyl. Never one to get into arguments about format; of what sounds the best, he just liked the way records sounded and the ritual of playing them. A Chicagoland native, Owen was lucky to have so many great record stores to visit and discover all sorts of cool sounds. Owen has been playing in bands since the 90s and is currently the guitar player of noisy rock band Weaklung, you can find him a few times a week browsing the bins at Reckless in The Loop on his lunch break.

Martin Douglas has been a working music journalist since 2010. He has written for publications such as Pitchfork, Bandcamp Daily, and respected music blog POW, as well as many others. Martin currently lives in North Seattle and works for KEXP, where he authors the long-running Pacific Northwest music column “Throwaway Style” and was the co-host and co-producer of the Webby-nominated podcasts Fresh off the Spaceship and The Cobain 50. He makes productive use of his record collection by spinning vinyl-only DJ sets around Seattle on occasion.