Featured Conversation: In Conversation With Music Journalist Martin Douglas - Part Two

Published on Jun 12, 2025

This is part two of a conversation between IHTOV correspondent Owen Brazas and music journalist Martin Douglas. Part One is here. This conversation has been edited for length and clarity.

OB: How do you as a music journalist, professional music journalist, podcaster, how do you find new music to you personally?

MD: I still like to go on the word of mouth of friends. There are a lot of different ways that I find music. Like, for one, I get inundated with publicity emails. I get between 30 and 75 promo emails a day, promo emails and unsolicited submissions from bands like, I would say upwards of 75 every workday.

OB: You don’t respond to all of those. Do you respond to, like, 10%, 5%, less?

MD: I would, I would say, I would say 2% at best. Because a lot of it is and I think this is the failing of…let me preface this by saying that I think PR people work hard, and they get a bad rap a lot of the time, but I think that it’s missing the personal touch. I think that if there were more PR people that really took in my work and really had a sense of what I liked and sent me stuff that they would think I liked, rather than these random email blasts that they send to every music journalist, that they know that I would respond more. And, you know, whether I like something or not, I would reach out to the person and be like, you know, like, Oh, I’m digging this. Or, oh, you know, this is not for me. Or, I like this, but I don’t know if I can cover it, that sort of thing, right? But that’s one of the ways that I find new music. I’ll find maybe, maybe two or 3% of the new stuff that I listen to will come from PR, but usually it’s word of mouth from people I respect. Musicians, other writers I follow. I subscribe to this newsletter by my friend Evan Minsker, seesaw. love seesaw. Seesaw is right up my alley. It’s exactly the music, the new music that I want to be seeking out. 

OB: It’s so funny. Sometimes it feels overwhelming to me, like he does such work. And it’s like I try to keep my eyes open, my ears open and there are so many bands and like they all sound kind of up my alley. As open as I want to be to things, so many things slip through the cracks.

MD: I have so many installments of Punk This Week in my Gmail folder, I have a special folder for seesaw. And, yeah, I have at least 25 pPunk This Week columns that I haven’t gotten all the way through yet, and I saved them because I want to hear all of the bands.

OB: They’re there for a reason, right? Like he wouldn’t have come in there if he didn’t want you to hear them.

MD: Yeah. And another, you know, another good source of new music is, I mentioned friends. Friends like you, friends like Evan. I have a friend Ben Parrish, who has his own management company called Jamboree Management. He even reached out to Calvin Johnson to have the rights to that name, which I think is cool. And that’s totally cool. He’s one of my music gurus, so to speak, like he and I have such close tastes that I know that if something comes recommended to him, or even if it’s not recommended, even if it’s a band or artist that he’s working with or are touring with one of the artists that he’s working with. I will check them out, because that is how solid I think his taste is. And I think everybody has that one friend where their taste doesn’t miss for you. Ben is that friend for me.

OB: Have you ever had a friend and they are so into this new band? They love them, and you hear them, and you’re kind of like, yeah, it’s okay. But their enthusiasm is like, Oh, they’re coming, they’re playing. We gotta go together. We gotta go. We’re gonna go, we’re gonna go. And something about their enthusiasm wins you over and then you start to really love this band, because your friend really loves the band. It clicks. I’ve had that happen, and I think that’s such a unique experience.

MD: Yeah, I have, I have a couple friends that I talk about where their taste don’t miss. I have a couple of friends whose Venn diagrams are there, but they will recommend something to me once out of the blue, every once in a while, or, I go to shows with a few select friends pretty regularly. And they will be super excited about it. And I’m like, Yeah, this is alright. But you go see them live, and you’re like, wow. And I think that that’s the cool thing about going to live shows, is that it presents a band in a much different context. And I think that if you, if you are a band, and your recordings are better than your live show, then you need to tune something up.

OB: You know, that’s funny. I think you might have mentioned this on a Cobain 50s episode about how everybody has access to semi professional recording stuff now, like Pro Tools on a computer and a couple good mics, and you can make a semi professional sounding demo or something. And there are so many bands and artists out there who live in their bedroom, and they make their music and stuff, and they just make a ton of stuff, which is great. You can be great. I mean, there’s some people that are just kind of doing it for a lark. So it makes it really hard to find the people who are really into it and real about it, and really talented and making stuff, versus the other people that are like, I have access to this, so what else am I going to do? Or, you know, it’d be cool to be on Tiktok. But I found that there’s a weird gap in people that live in recording. Like they just get into the minutia of recording, recording, recording, recording in their bedroom. And then they’ve been recording for like, a year or two, and then they go play their first show, and then it just falls flat, they have no idea that it’s two separate things. Because before, when I was cutting my teeth again, I sounded old. And in the 90s you didn’t have access to recording things at all. Like maybe you had a friend that had a four track and a microphone, and it sounded like trash, but, you know, at least unique trash maybe. But you learn by playing live, that’s how people cut their teeth. And I feel like now it’s almost like people are cutting their teeth the opposite way.

MD: I’ve made a few rap references. We’ve made a few rap references earlier, and there’s a specific instance that I am reminded of when we’re talking about bands that just record like crazy, and then they perform live, and then it falls flat.

OB: I remember. It must have been like 2001.

MD: The artists from Rockefeller Records State Property in particular. It’s kind of like the subgroup of Rockefeller with Beanie Siegel and Freeway. They go on the big radio station in New York, hot 97, and they kill it. They tear it down. Jay Z is screaming into the mic, I’ll put whatever money on any of my guys. My guys will murder any rapper that’s out there. And there is audio footage of a rapper, Cassidy. He’s from Philly. He was signed to Swiss Beats during this time, and he battles Freeway. Freeway is one of those rappers that has this incredible sense of rhythm when it comes to rapping, his flow is just incredible, and his flow is a big part of his style. But he was facing Cassidy acapella, and Cassidy was murdering this dude, and at the end of the recording, you can hear Freeway start to get nervous, and was like, throw a beat on. And that’s what reminds me of these bands, because recording equipment is so accessible and so many musicians had access to some very sophisticated stuff, and they are able to make sophisticated recordings, but they don’t have chops. And that’s, that’s what it comes down to. And it’s not even saying, like, chops means you gotta, rip a solo. You know, one of my favorite bands is Beat Happening. Beat Happening didn’t have chops, but they were one of the best bands ever. In my opinion, it’s that you have to have the thing where you can go in front of a live audience and get through a set. And I think because recording is so sophisticated nowadays, artists put the cart before the horse, and they record these symphonic, ethereal masterpieces, but then it’s like, well, how are you going to put that in front of an audience? You’re gonna bring every, every effects pedal you have, you’re gonna bring $100,000 worth of effects pedals and do this live in front of people, and not take 20 minutes to set up?

OB: Right, right. And, I mean, I guess that’s to play devil’s advocate. But it’s cool if you, if you’re doing that, and you have no intention of getting in front of an audience. And that’s fine. But if you’re an artist who wants to perform like you should want to perform. There should be a reason you’re getting up there. I’ve seen some bands where it’s like they look like they want to be anywhere else, like I’m doing them a favor for coming and listening to them play, and they don’t even want to be there. I feel like the contract is being ignored.

MD: And then it’s like, why be there? Why not just, you know, tool around your little studio and make recordings and send them out of your house, like Jandek because, like, I’m not going to make a blanket statement, but I think a lot of these bands just want to be famous.

OB: I mean, we’ve seen a lot of people become famous with, you know, questionable talent and the right people behind them, or just in the right place at the right time. Do you remember - I don’t mean to throw this band under a truck or anything, but you remember when Stranger Things came out, and the band who did the theme song they weren’t really a group, you know, they just did it, and then they tried to put them on the road to play. 

MD: I never heard about that, but, but I remember people kind of going crazy for that band. And like, yeah, like, they tried to make it a thing, and then I heard that it wasn’t. It didn’t become a thing.

OB: Yeah, they made a great theme for a TV show. And like, you know, that’s great, but you don’t have to go tour it.

MD: It makes me kind of wistful. When you hear of Black Flag’s militant practice sessions that literally last all day and barely have a lunch break, and sometimes don’t even have a lunch break. I pine for bands with that sort of discipline.

OB: That’s part of it, right? Like, I feel like there is a lack of discipline. Just because you can record, I mean, not everyone’s Guided by Voices, right? You can’t record 40 songs and release 40 songs. And 95% of them are good. Part of it is having taste even in your own self, like, Okay, this was really fun to record, and then you listen back to it, like, this isn’t ready. Or, this needs to be workshopped. It’s like, Okay, we’re done. Out it goes, and it feels like that kind of stops evolution or growth in a band.

MD: I come into this from a writer’s perspective. A lot of good writers aren’t good editors. I’ve seen writers, you know, just write up a storm and then put it out. And now it’s so easy, you know, just like we’re talking about recording music, it’s so easy to put writing out there, especially with social media, you don’t even have to have a newsletter or a blog or you just type it up in your notes app and put it on Instagram now. All artists need good editors. And if that’s self editing, great, if it’s a producer in the studio saying, we need to try this a different way, or we need to scrap this completely, great, but I think that the editing process needs to be there.

OB: You know what we need? We need more friends that are bullies. They’re like, this is garbage. What are you doing? Man, what are you doing? Or a boyfriend or a girlfriend. Like, I don’t think this is it, honey. 

MD: Yes, yeah. And we’re sadly, well, I mean, maybe it’s a double up sort of thing, like everybody has this emotional awareness. But also I do think that brutal honesty is a form of kindness. And so, yeah, we, we need those  editor type bullies that are like, Oh, this, ain’t it, yeah?

OB: Or like, you know, if someone says that and you really believe in it, that makes you have to have that conversation. You’re backing up why you think this is good, and like, if the other person still doesn’t get into it, at least, then you’ve really thought about it and made that decision, like, it’s like, it’s part of the journey I feel is kind of missing a little bit.

MD: Yeah, and even if you’re bumping heads with that person who’s trying to tell you, Oh, this isn’t good, and you really believe in it, I think that that gives you a thicker skin as an artist, because now we are in an era, coming back to my career, where people are so thin skinned that even constructive criticism gets written off as hating, and it’s like, it’s likeI am a hater, but I’m not always trying to hate on stuff, right? You know, sometimes I don’t derive joy out of saying something is not good, or I don’t like this, or it has no artistic or cultural value. I definitely don’t like doing it all the time, but you gotta, and that’s just how it is.

What was the first record you bought with your own money?

OB:   This is going to sound fake and made up and pretentious, but it was the first Fugazi EP.

MD: Nice. I mean, well, my mind would probably sound equally so because it was the Velvet Underground, self titled album. I can remember when I bought the Velvet Underground, it was at Rasputin Records, and I think it was like just outside of Palo Alto, I was visiting a friend. But I also, like around that time, I bought Wipers, Youth of America, and for the life of me, I cannot remember, I cannot recall whatsoever how I obtained that record. Like, I know I bought it, but I don’t know where I bought it. I can’t remember, it’s just a record that appeared in my collection. I have no recollection of buying it.

OB:  I got the first Wipers LP. I actually got on CD, because this record store was going out of business, and I bought like, 10 LPs, and they threw that in for free.And I was like, Oh, the wipers, I think I knew them, just because of Nirvana. They covered “D7.”

MD: That’s a really cool, just random gift.

OB: How about record stores? Record stores, I’ve always felt, and kind of record store clerks in particular get this kind of bad rap. I always hear stories of people like, Oh, I was too scared to go up and show them what records I was going to buy. I have never had that experience. I’ve always had the Oh, little dude, if you, if you like this, you should try this, this or this. And I always was really accepting of what might happen. it’s a conversation, right? I was a young preteen or teen and like, I know I’m not the coolest person in the world. These guys aren’t gonna yell at me., I’m ready to talk though I want to learn.

MD: I feel as though I came into music fandom from a unique place, because I had been reading music magazines since I was like six or seven years old. So I knew the bands that piqued my interest. I knew the bands that I thought were interesting. So that’s not to say like, I was always cool, but I didn’t have the experience of buying a record and having the clerk make fun of me because I knew, I knew the bands that I liked, I knew the bands that were interesting. And if I wanted to seek something out it was usually a band that you know had some modicum of critical acclaim. And so, like, I think that’s how I bypass, like, the shitty record store clerk thing. Like, I think my experience was a lot like yours, where record clerks were showing me even more obscure stuff than the stuff that I was buying. Oh, you like the White Stripes? Well, what about the Oblivions? Have you heard of the Oblivions? You know, things like that. I mean, there have definitely been experiences where I’ve had a mutual crush on the record store clerk. But I was never bullied by record store clerks. I think it was like, I think the mutual crush, there was a little playful teasing, but that’s about it.

OB: I don’t get the idea of having an adversarial relationship with record clerks, it’s like being scared of a librarian or something.They’re there because they love this stuff, like you do. And maybe I was just naive, like, like, I was like we’re all here. We love music, we’re all here. They want me buying stuff.

MD: I think that the myth of the record store clerk bully comes from the idea that people want to be validated in their tastes. And again, you know, like people, people being afraid of other people not liking what they like.

OB: Good point there. And I think that the good thing about the music we’re into, be it, you know, underground hip hop stuff, just DIY stuff in general, small press, record people, even in a record store, it’s a community. I think some people are scared of other people, like, like, they just want to live in their digital world or whatever, where they control everything behind a mask of avatars and anonymity. And you, when you go face to face with somebody, they get scared, maybe see I’m just spitballing here.

MD: Everybody wants to be liked. Everybody wants to be validated, right? And I think that’s part of, you know, the anonymity of online culture.

OB: I also think there’s people who miss the community part of music sharing. It’s a conversation,you’re listening to what somebody has to say about the world. It’s art,, it’s both ways, yeah, and I think part of it is the community of the record store, or, you know, those people are there to cultivate local scenes. See, you know, flyers on the wall. Like, sometimes there’s free CDs or bandcamp downloads or stuff, and you can’t get that. I know some people are, like, I got my records at Amazon. It’s $5 cheaper. But I want to spend my $5 to have places like this. It’s important, like, yes, video stores have gone away. You know what? I mean, that used to be a place where you’d find out about movies. Yeah, I don’t want to lose record stores.

MD: I totally agree with that. And I think it’s like you’re saying a hub for community, a hub for like minded people. And you know, people have such varied tastes. But at the same time, it’s like, when you go to a record store, we’re all here trying to find our new favorite music. We’re trying to be a part of this community that has given us so much in just music being the best thing ever. And I think that is very important. I think it is, you know, like I order direct from record labels. I spend a lot of money on Bandcamp, but nothing replaces the record store experience of getting to talk to people that I’ve made friends with over the years. I know a lot of people from my local music scene, from the record store, from browsing around or selling my records to them, or going in there and not buying anything. I think that’s a key part of the record store experience too. Sometimes you just want to go in there and be in the space. A rare third space for young people. 

​​Ever since Owen’s parents taught him how to flip a record as a child he has been hooked on vinyl. Never one to get into arguments about format; of what sounds the best, he just liked the way records sounded and the ritual of playing them. A Chicagoland native, Owen was lucky to have so many great record stores to visit and discover all sorts of cool sounds. Owen has been playing in bands since the 90s and is currently the guitar player of noisy rock band Weaklung, you can find him a few times a week browsing the bins at Reckless in The Loop on his lunch break.

Martin Douglas has been a working music journalist since 2010. He has written for publications such as Pitchfork, Bandcamp Daily, and respected music blog POW, as well as many others. Martin currently lives in North Seattle and works for KEXP, where he authors the long-running Pacific Northwest music column “Throwaway Style” and was the co-host and co-producer of the Webby-nominated podcasts Fresh off the Spaceship and The Cobain 50. He makes productive use of his record collection by spinning vinyl-only DJ sets around Seattle on occasion.